riverside_ep.110_wild_and well colle
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Christa Elza: [00:00:00] When histamine is released, it dilates blood vessels. It increases permeability. That's why we get a headache.
That's why we get stuffy nose, because everything's just kind of like, and we get flushed. Like sometimes people get really red. We'll get hives. That's all because of that blood, that dilation. And that increase like permeability, like in cells we have to have it. I mean, it is an immune defense, but like everything in our body, we have to have a balance.
Right? So too much, too little. It's a problem.
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Sheree Beaumont: Welcome back to another episode of the Wild and Wow Collective. There has been something that I've seen popping up all over social. It's getting a lot more attention. It is something that, you know, both Christian and I have worked with clients numerous on numerous occasions over the years, but suddenly getting a lot more attention, and that is the histamine conversation.
There is a link to ovulation and there is a link to our genetics. It is something, you know, like I even used to take antihistamines every single day as a child because I was told my histamine levels were too high. So I think this is a really important conversation to have because we can go to the extremes with it, or it could be an underlying reason why everything that you're doing to try and improve the symptoms you're experiencing isn't working.
'cause this is part of the root or cause of the problem. So, Krista, can you explain a little bit about the. Actual idea of histamine and what goes on in the body if we [00:02:00] aren't breaking it down properly or how it can start to affect our hormones.
Christa Elza: Yeah, I think, have you ever had a glass of red wine and your nose is congested or you start to feel kind of anxious or you have a headache?
That most likely is histamine. Sometimes people can get hives or stomach bloating or worse PMS, and that's just all of that is the histamine effect. And histamine is kind of like an allergy molecule. It can impact digestion, it can impact your hormones, your mood. And anxiety for sure. I've definitely seen patients that have a lot of anxiety and we realize that their histamine is high.
Because that's kind of a, it's a driver and I, we don't always think about it. So we're gonna kind of talk about the histamine intolerance because that's really, we all have histamine. It's a byproduct. It's in our body, regardless. We have it. But some people are really more susceptible to it whether producing it or [00:03:00] not, being able to break it down.
I think first would be helpful to kind of explain like mast cells and histamine a little bit. Mast cells are the, they're immune, like sentinels, like they just kind of, they, anytime that there's any kind of response that the body feels threatened by mast cells can be released. And when they're triggered, they release histamine as a signal.
So histamine is almost like a, a like a signal sent out to the rest of the body to come and like something has happened. We need to flare up. Right. So then we kinda get these trickle down symptoms. When histamine is released, it dilates blood vessels. It increases permeability. That's why we get a headache.
That's why we get stuffy nose, because everything's just kind of like, and we get flushed. Like sometimes people get really red. We'll get hives. That's all because of that blood, that dilation. And that increase like permeability, like in cells we [00:04:00] have to have it. I mean, it is an immune defense, but much like everything in our body, we have to have a balance.
Right? So too much, too little. It's a problem. We have to have it for stomach acid. It's. It's important for neuro transmission, so we have to have it. But when it's chronically activated, that's where we feel that burden of it. That's where we're like, man, why do I always have headaches or I'm getting hives out of nowhere, or the sinus congestion.
We can have itchiness, we can have heart palpitations. Like all of those things can be sourced back to histamine. Different things can trigger. It's not just red wine. It can be stress. We can be overly stressed that can trick, you know, that's revved up the body and then we can release histamine that way.
Mold in the house can chronically elevate histamine. Generalized toxins can be a problem. Infection can be a problem. And then obviously allergens. So, you know, we live in Texas where there's a lot of cedar and so different seasons. If you're susceptible to this. You'll be flared up with, you know, the headaches, the [00:05:00] congestion, et cetera.
So that's kind of high level, like what this whole process is and like where it's coming from, like the mast cells, right.
Sheree Beaumont: And it's so interesting that you said it can cause so many of these symptoms that we're just completely unaware of. And one of the biggest things that I do with my clients is obviously treat the gut and sometimes it is going on like an antihistamine diet for a short period of time.
If they're really not able to get to the root, like if Paleo isn't working, if they've tried other anti-inflammatory diets, like sometimes it really does come down to the histamine reaction. One of the most common things that I am seeing of recent is. With women in ovulation, they're like, why is my ovulation.
Way worse than my period symptoms. You know, we've been taught this narrative that our PMS is the worst time of the month, the pre period premenstrual symptoms, but yet I'm getting women who are coming to me because they've got really bad bloating around ovulation. They've got more headaches around [00:06:00] ovulation.
They've got. Itchiness, like you said, or maybe they're more cassy or there's all these symptoms that are starting to flare up, and if you think about ovulation, ovulation is typically where you can handle things like your wine or your alcohol a little bit better. Your body's more insulin sensitive, so.
Then they're starting to erect their brains as to what on earth this is going on to drive these, the symptomology. And we know that around ovulation, estrogen goes up. So can we talk a little bit about the science of what happens when we've got high histamine and high estrogen and how that can start to impact our body?
Christa Elza: Yeah. I think this is a combination that most people don't realize that estrogen stimulates mast cells. So, and remember we talked about mast cells, release histamine. So interestingly, when we have a spike in estrogen, it can also stimulate those mast cells and histamine feeds back and then stimulates more estrogen.
It's like the cycle. So for some people who are really sensitive to histamine [00:07:00] or can't break it down, which we'll talk a little bit about, this can become a problem. So your symptoms can worsen. So that can even like, make you feel really anxious around ovulation because of that histamine response. It can increase migraines, it can, you know, be one of the reasons that people have a lot of PMS.
Yeah, again, like anxiety and hives and things like that around ovulation or right before their period starts where we have a little bit of a bump there towards the end. Progesterone has a good calming stabilizing effect. So if you're ovulating well, and you're releasing that good progesterone, great, you can suppress some of that estrogen effect, which in turn changes, you know, can suppress some of that histamine response.
But particularly in perimenopause where sometimes you're not ovulating regularly or you're not getting out a good progesterone push, this can be another symptom of estrogen dominance. And then more histamine dominance as well. So that's always a fun game. So really balancing your hormones can really help balance out histamine and I [00:08:00] think a lot of people just don't know that.
They don't know that that's what's happening there.
Sheree Beaumont: And so if you ask someone that, like you said, is a little bit more sensitive to histamine, you know, we're starting to get a lot more in tune with our bodies, which I think is fantastic. And part of this picture is the genetic picture, right? You know, there is a certain gene that if you miss this you are naturally gonna have a lot harder time breaking down your histamine, your DAO.
Or a DW enzyme is typically what is needed to break down this excess histamine. So you could be having, if we think about fermented foods, a lot of this has been introduced more recently, right? We went like quite a long period of time. Fermented foods have been around for centuries. Every culture has fermented foods.
Kind of forgot about them for a little while. We've bought them back and now everyone's having their keer and their kombucha and their sauer crown and their kimchi, and we're seeing all these histamine things flare up. So can you talk to me a little bit about how. Despite the fact that fermented foods are higher in histamine, how this can be affecting people from a [00:09:00] genetic level.
Christa Elza: Yeah. Well first let's talk a little bit about foods and histamine load. So, basically we have a histamine bucket, and that's really like how much our body can handle until it overflows. And that's different for everybody, but high histamine foods, I mean, you could google the whole list and then just check off and say, okay, I typically eat.
Ah, but the ones that you would just automatically, you are gonna be like a charcuterie board full of histamines, like aged cheeses, cured meats. Red wine like you are a hi. You are filling up that histamine bucket by sitting there with wine in a charcuterie board. Fermented foods like you mentioned, but things like tomatoes, like nightshades, eggplant even spinach can be higher in histamine.
There are other foods that don't necessarily, they're not really high histamine themselves, but they can liberate more histamine so they can activate the release of histamine in other ways, which would be like citrus foods. Strawberries, chocolate shellfish. So some people have a big reaction to shellfish.
It's kind of a common one that would be really sad if [00:10:00] it's chocolate for you. But so these are more like histamine, like releasers liberators. They don't contain a lot of histamine within themselves. Also like leftovers can stimulate just because the bacterial breakdown of foods can create more of a histamine response.
So symptoms often show up when the total load, like food stress your hormones. Your gut health is not great. Like, when all of that kind of comes together, you might find like, oh my gosh, I wasn't used to, I didn't used to be so sensitive to something and now I am. It's because there's, you've kind of tacked these things on and stacked it.
And so the goal isn't to like demonize the healthy foods, it's just to kind of rebuild your gut capacity. Also to figure out like what's kind of driving this new intolerance to things. Genetics can definitely play a role. You mentioned the doo gene, DAO gene. This basically means you have less enzyme production in the gut to break down histamine.
So we can supplement that and we can, you, you know, we can add that into your supplement regimen so that you have more [00:11:00] externally since you don't make a lot of it yourself. So knowing your genes in that way can be really helpful. You've might have heard of M-T-H-F-R, the motherfucker gene, that mutation, that some element of, of these, dysfunction of this gene is pretty common on some levels. Some people have more of this M-T-H-F-R mutation than others. 'Cause there's different variants that can happen there, but it basically reduces your methylation capacity. And that means like cellular changes and cellular handoffs of things.
So if you have a mutation on. Particular gene, it can really slow down the breakdown of histamine in the liver through something called the HNMT enzyme, so it, it can slow down another enzyme. So basically it, like anything in the body, it's a process and if we're exposed to something, we've gotta be able to break it down.
So if you have these genes outside of testing, you might see like, okay, well I have more seasonal allergies. I'm more reactive to foods. I [00:12:00] really have, I'm more, I tend more to have anxiety and migraines, especially around like stressful times or eating certain foods. So you want to, I mean, in order to kind of combat that, you wanna be on top of this by taking like a methylated B vitamin.
Methylfolate. You wanna take something called TMG, which can also kind of help with some of that methylation that's in supplement form. You wanna stay on top of liver detox support. So things like NAC milk thistle really support that liver that's trying to break some of this stuff down. And then, you know, you're gonna get more personalization if you just do genetic testing.
And you're like, okay, enough is enough. Like what's actually driving some of this obnoxious symptoms? Then, you know, check out your genes and then you'll know specifically how you can support yourself better if that is part of your picture.
Sheree Beaumont: It's so interesting because again, like, and I'm curious, there is a whole lot of the conversation around. You just go straight to the diet. So I love that you mentioned the supplements that you can start to take. You know, I know that there are, [00:13:00] it's just like a low FOD map when it comes to gut health.
People will attach themselves to like, okay, the foods are the thing that's bad. The food is what's tipping over my histamine bucket. So. Aside from demonizing the food or taking out the ferment, yes. You might have to take out the fermented foods for a while. Yes. You may have to pause on the charcuterie boards.
Yes. It may be that the wine is, you know, maybe not a red wine 'cause it's higher in histamine. Like you can kind of play around with these things a little bit more. I remember doing like an eight week histamine free. Protocol and it is so restrictive. And the last thing we wanna be sitting here is advocating, like you're gonna have to go on that for the rest of your life.
So yes, you could do a short term intervention, just see if your body does better without some of these foods, particularly the aged fermented foods. If you notice that starts to clear up and you add in some of these supplements, maybe you do the genetic testing and you, and you actually identify the histamine's a problem for you.
What are some of the other things, because you've mentioned gut health, you've mentioned stress. How can we keep our histamine in check?
Christa Elza: I think that we [00:14:00] can't ever, like, we always have to talk about the gut. So the gut is just so pivotal to this. I mean, I think, we always wanna remove, especially while we're having like a overflow with a bucket, you know, whether it's, you know, you are exposed to mold, you are going under, you know, you have a lot of stress.
Maybe you're perimenopause and your hormones are a little bit wonky. Remove the foods like you have, you can't eliminate you. You've gotta do that first. Like you've gotta eliminate hot, like the really heavy hitters, like maybe you don't have a CICU board and red wine. So I think also what you can do is start to recognize what also blocks DAO, which helps to break down histamine.
And unfortunately that is alcohol and certain medications like. NSAIDs can also contribute to that. Antibiotics. Some antidepressants can suppress that enzyme that's breaking down histamine. So, you know, check with your doctor, look online to see like, are any of the things that I'm taking right now actually blocking my ability to even break histamine down?
So we wanna remove the things that are like, hello, this is just adding to my [00:15:00] problem. But also if we have a high level of overgrowth of bad bacteria, we have what's called leaky gut. This can really. You know, that means that permeability in the gut is wider than it should be, and so we're exposing more of that to our body, which is, increasing that inflammatory process systemically in our body.
That can also lower. That DAO enzyme. So that stinks. So we've got to really get to like, how do we heal the gut then? So you want to do like a gut healing protocol? I would add a supplement that kind of contains like glutamine and zinc, carnasine, maybe collagen, to help firm up that and heal that gut lining.
Probiotics, like inoculating the gut with like the good guys can be really helpful too to, and maybe adding a supplement that contains the DAO it itself. Short term at meals. I mean, that's, those are the things that I would start with, like really diving into you. You may want to avoid some like lactobacillus strains if you're really reactive to them.
So. Choosing a [00:16:00] probiotic, you know, you want to maybe choose one that is higher in like the I can never pronounce all these long words, but it's like bifido bacterium, like you wanna do more of the bifido bacterium versus the lactobacillus, like the, that can sometimes activate histamine, so you wanna go that route.
So I mean, I would always start with the gut and like removing the things that, you know, are kind of in the way.
Sheree Beaumont: Yeah, and, and you know, to talk to the lactobacillus strains, part of that is, you know, the connection there between dairy and dairy and histamine have a massive correlation. And it's not just in the aged cheeses.
This is where, I am a huge advocate and I'm someone who has gone through like a massive full circle moment where I've reintroduced a lot of dairy into my life. I make sure it's very high quality, but for the longest time I couldn't have dairy. And so if you're someone that is having. Any of the symptoms that we've mentioned, and you are still consuming yogurt or cottage cheese or any of these beautiful dairy rich foods that are lovely and high [00:17:00] in protein, probably the reason you're consuming them.
But you're having all of these symptoms. It may be worth looking at just pausing dairy for even four weeks because that can give you such a strong histamine reaction as well. So it's starting to. Play around with looking at what, what flares you up and what flares your body up and if there is this genetic component or not.
And I do think, you know, even myself, it was quite funny when you were talking earlier about the hives and that and the stress. You know, like I literally, when my parents separated, which is obviously a massive stress on a child, I broke out and all these hives and the doctor literally just put it down to stress.
But like I said, when I was really little, I was on antihistamines every single day. And when we went. Away, especially in New Zealand, the exposure to a lot of the trees in the change of season F flared me up even more so. So it's just starting to look at. What is the overlap here? You know, I had to go on fricking prednisone to make sure that I was suppressing all of the symptomology that was happening.
[00:18:00] And I look back at it now and go, it was just a really deep histamine intolerance that was compounded by stress, that was compounded by gut issues. That was compounded by the fact my hormones are changing. 'cause I was about to go through puberty, like poor little Cherie had this concoction going on, but this is probably really common, you know, not as a 12-year-old.
Female, but as a woman going through perimenopause, and I'm wondering if you could just lightly touch on how it might be different. Postmenopausally as well, because of the, we are not producing as much estrogen, but we're also not producing as much progesterone, which you said can have a really calming effect
Christa Elza: too.
Yeah, but I think without the estrogen, you're kind of taking that piece out of the puzzle. But you know, as we age, our stomach acid lowers our, our propensity for gut problems increases. So yes, we're kind of removing the hormone element of it, but now most. You know, as we age, we have to really pay attention to gut health so, and stress, right?
So I, I think that it's a win kind of if you're not, but you know, talk about hormone [00:19:00] replacement therapy. You know, you now you're back to square one, but post-menopausal, if you're not doing hormone replacement therapy, you've got one aspect that's kind of removed, but then some of these other aspects could be elevated.
So it's just kind of a back and forth. And I think, yeah, I think it's just, you know, for takeaways and to kind of summarize everything. 'cause I know this can feel overwhelming and complicated and like, well what about this and what about that? I think if you can identify some triggers. So have a food journal.
If you notice like you have higher anxiety, which is multifactorial, but if you notice like specifically when you eat certain things, you have more anxiety journal it out. Stress, like take inventory of like how stressed out on a scale of zero to five, am I five being the worst? Do I suspect hormone imbalances?
Do I have other things like bloating or constipation or diarrhea, like what's going on with my gut? Sometimes we don't even know that there's gut problems. But address those, like take note of all those things no matter what, you wanna support the gut by either taking a supplement that has that DAO enzyme in it.
So there's plenty on. On [00:20:00] Amazon that you can get. We have some in our Fullscript account as well. A good probiotic, again, focusing more on that bifido bacteria, not the lactobacillus formulations. And really healing that gut lining repair. So do a little bit, do a little bit of research and figure out how you can do work with somebody that can help you with your gut health.
And then balancing your hormones as a woman, you need to make sure that you've got, you know, a good progesterone push that progesterone, estrogen ratio, maybe get tested and see where you're at with that. Especially if it's starting to line up with your cycle. Then, you know, like maybe this is like estrogen promoting, and then maybe check your genetics and see, when in doubt try some a, b, a good B complex folate cleaner lifestyle kind of thing. Like, try some of that and see if it lowers your propensity for allergic reactions. And then stress degranulates that mast cell, remember the mast cell is the first kind of what is released and then it sends out the histamine and stress.
Does that stress like is. [00:21:00] It's a stress. Stress is a stress on the body. And so the body responds in that fight or flight, which sometimes can release those mast cells and then we release the histamine. So I think taking an inventory of okay, I'm gonna go step by step on trying to heal this and trying things right, can really start to lower that burden, lower the need for like chronic antihistamine.
That kind of a thing, but histamine can be kinda one of those sneaky things that you don't realize like that's the cause of like your anxiety or your brain fog or et cetera. Right.
Sheree Beaumont: Yeah, this has been, I hopefully bring a conversation that's just brought a level of awareness and whilst we've talked through a lot of the science behind it, there are some really practical, tangible things you can do.
And it really just starts at identifying your triggers. And if any of the symptoms we mentioned have been like aha, light bulb moment, like we've said, starting with the gut, looking at some of these supplements. And if you're not sure where to start, both of us have got, screeds of resources that we can point you in the right direction.
So look at what you can tackle first, whether this, whether it's stress, [00:22:00] whether it's diet, whether it is the fact that you're ovulating and wondering why on earth you feel like crap. It's really just, it's taking inventory of your body and taking charge. And like we always say, empowered health is your superpower.
So putting this back into your own hands and knowing that there is a solution, there is an answer. And maybe this has been one of the missing pieces 'cause you've been doing everything else right.
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