Holistic Perinatal Mental Health Therapy Journey
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Robin Burleson: [00:00:00] Confidence is. Not natural. It is something we have to work at and a lot of women just think, oh, that woman's confident.
I'm not. No, that's not how it works. We have to really work hard to be confident and to build our self-esteem.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wild and Well Collective Podcast where we believe empowered health is your superpower.
Speaker 3: We have combined our expertise in medicine and nutrition to bring you the latest research expert insights and success stories of people on a mission to live a big life.
Speaker 2: So buckle up and get ready to learn how to live wildly well.
Christa Elza: Welcome to another episode of The Wild and Well Collective. And we're so excited to have you with us today. Robin, I want you to start out with kind of sharing how you got into doing what you do. Like how did you get into the world of therapy and what's your passion like, who do you primarily work with?
Robin Burleson: Yeah, [00:01:00] so I didn't really, I didn't go to college knowing I wanted to be a therapist. I didn't. I thought I wanted to do broadcast journalism, which makes me laugh now because I've become so much more introverted in my adult years. So I could never do that now. But so that's how I started. And then I realized I don't know what I wanna do pretty quickly in college, I was like, I don't really know what I wanna do.
So I actually went to the counseling center on campus, did some like career assessments and it, a lot of things kept coming back with like, you're very people centered, you enjoy people, you wanna work with people. And then I was kind of like, directed towards therapy and I was like, oh, I think I wanna learn a little bit about that.
So I started looking into that. I had really good advisors at my university. I went to University of North Texas. They really helped guide me and figure out, you know, do I wanna do this? If I do it, what's the path from undergrad to graduate school? It just so happened that ENT has one of the top counseling programs in the country and the top at the time when I was at the top in the state [00:02:00] and it just.
Worked out that way. So I did my undergrad there and then I applied right away and started the journey. It is a journey to become a therapist. I don't know that people know that, but it is at least three years of graduate school and then it's at least two more years of supervision once you're already graduated, have.
Your diploma, the whole thing to even become licensed. It's thousands of hours of therapy and learning, it's really intense. So when I started out, I went into schools first. Because I was working as a teacher while I was in graduate school, so I started as a school counselor. I did that for several years and then I moved to private practice and I was kind of a generalist.
I kind of wanted to get my feet wet and see who I really enjoyed working with. Did that for several years and realized I really enjoyed working with. With females, with women, and with teenage girls. And so, I decided to open my own practice and really focus in and zone in on women and what they need.
I think in the experience of being a woman is so [00:03:00] layered and complicated and I. Yeah, I just find it really interesting, I think, I don't know about you, but I like to talk to other female providers. So if I'm gonna go see a doctor, I wanna see a female, and I kind of feel that way about therapy too.
So I wanted to, you know, provide that opportunity. Yeah, so that's kind of how I found the niche. One thing that kind of led me here too was I kept getting a lot of referrals from doctors for postpartum anxiety and depression. And so that kind of tipped the scale for me a bit. I went and I'm like, how do I learn as a therapist?
Like how do I get better at treating this? And so I found out there's a whole program through that, through Postpartum Support International, I got additional training and now I'm a perinatal mental health counselor. So that was one thing that really tipped the scale. And I was like, I really think I like working with women.
And that kind of led to what's going on with the hormones. And then that led to, oh, what happens when their kids are 15? 16, 20 years old, and so it kind of just grew from there.
sheree Beaumont: Like that's such a beautiful, layered approach and like [00:04:00] quite an interesting journey to. To get where you are, especially like postpartum or, you know, in that like prenatal kind of space. It's, so, I always talk about from a health perspective what we go through, but I don't think it's addressed enough in a mental health perspective.
You know, we go through puberty, our hormones are changing and having massive change. Then we kind of, okay, are we gonna go through the journey into motherhood when we start to get into our twenties, late twenties, maybe now in our mid to late thirties? And then maybe don't have children. Then we've got maybe one, maybe two, maybe three, like Krista, you've got children, and then you've gotta go through the whole journey after that.
And then by the time you're wrapping that up, you are hitting menopause. Then you're going through post menopause and the hormonal influence and the life changes that are happening throughout every single instance is quite dramatic when you think about it. And so I'm super curious to have this conversation and dive into a little bit more about what you've noticed from this anxiety, from the depression, from the women [00:05:00] that you work with that I know they're very high achieving, high performing.
And if you've noticed, like you've already mentioned, a little bit of that overlap from a hormonal perspective because I think sometimes we can just either be told by a lot of male practitioners that we're just crazy. Or we've got this idea or this perception that, you know, being a female, we have all these moods, we have all of this, you know, up ups and downs and mood swings.
Just a normal part of being a woman and the anxiety and the depression is just almost normalized. I mean, I know I've spoken to a number of women postpartum who have been like. The shame that they carry for not feeling like they should just be so overjoyed at having a child. Right. And everyone's journey is so different.
Can you talk to, you know, some of the things that you've noticed in relation to that?
Robin Burleson: Okay. Knowing what I know now and working with clients, I really prefer to have the conversation about hormones. If I can get a client early enough in the teenage years, 'cause honestly that's where it starts. And for some women, them starting their period is a, [00:06:00] oh my gosh, it rocks their world. And it's a really defining moment, especially if they have.
Some other medical issue involved with that. So it could be anything from migraines who I've had clients with, POTS as young teenagers endometriosis, PCOS. Like all of those things really play into our mental health and those start. As a teenager and also when you start your cycle and you enter puberty, that's really the first time kind of lines up developmentally where you start feeling emotions at a much deeper level.
In early childhood, we feel them, they're very surface level and puberty around that age is when we start feeling deep emotions. And unfortunately for girls, teenage girls that also align. With the hormone shifting. And all of a sudden I'll get teenage clients who are like, my mom and dad say they don't even know me anymore.
And then I'm a different person and they're so angry at their parents. And so really I wish the conversation would start there. And then, like you were saying, it really, women were just so different from men. I feel like [00:07:00] men wake up every day. They feel the same, they look the same. They don't go through a lot of the changes that we do.
They do, but not like we do. I feel like we, a day to day we feel different 'cause of our cycle, but B, over years chapters of our lives, our body changes. So just when we think we know who we are or how we feel or what we're doing, just like that. It all changes again. And so I think that's where I come in as a mental health professional because those constant shifts and changes are challenging.
And oftentimes you feel like no one understands you or no one wants to listen to you or you don't have anyone in your life to talk to about this kind of, you know, depending on that person's life. But I do wish the conversations about hormones started much earlier. And a side note, I find it really interesting when I have a daughter who is in puberty and a mom that's in perimenopause.
Oh, that's like, that's a [00:08:00] really difficult combination. And oftentimes there's so much conflict between the mom and the daughter. And I come in and I'm like, listen, it's hard right now. It's not always gonna be this way. Let's try to figure this out so that later in life y'all can become friends and have that mom.
Friend, daughter, friend relationship.
Christa Elza: Yeah. I mean I think, I love that you kind of specialize in this and so you really get it and the shifts and the changes. Because I do think that women are different in that we are the. Like, a lot of the time the buck stops with us in terms of like the family and the kids. And I always call myself the default parent because even if the school has, you know, my husband's number or my kids for that matter, I'm the default parent in a lot of things.
And it has changed a little bit now that my boys are teenagers. But definitely when they were younger the buck stopped with me like, what's mom doing? What's mom saying? Mom, I need this, mom. I need that. It's just, it's a lot of pull and strain and I think. Yeah, to your point of having teenagers, I don't have any [00:09:00] teenage daughters, but teenagers, and then on top of it being in my mid to late forties,
like you drastically don't feel the same every day. I didn't notice it as much when I was Certainly not in my teens or twenties that day to day, like drastic fluctuations. But I definitely notice it now in mid forties where it's real. The roller, the hormone rollercoaster is really real and you don't have.
Like we, we see and we experience the world through the lens of hormones, through the lens of neurotransmitters. Right? Which, and those are all kind of connected. And so, yeah. I love that you kind of speak to that. What kind of tools do you give women? Let's just talk about like the mid forties. 'cause I think it tends to be really dynamic.
What kind of tools do you give women and how do you approach this kind of phase in life?
Robin Burleson: I think it's really important. I always start the conversation with what I like to call the foundational five of self-care. So sleep nutrition, movement, whatever form of exercise you [00:10:00] prefer. Do not do something you don't like, 'cause you're not gonna stick with it.
It can be gardening, it can be dancing, it can be running whatever you want. Sunshine. We need to be outdoors more and fresh air. Usually when you talk to women, they're lacking sometimes all of those. But definitely a hand, three or four of those. Because if you think about, like you said, a woman in her forties sleep, depending on where she is with her kids and her career, sleep might be hard to come by or sometimes women have trouble sleeping 'cause we do carry this very heavy emotional burden.
That's something I see a lot. Nutrition. Listen, the brain is physical health. It's not separate. This is all one body. So the things we put in and on our body really matter, and I am a big advocate for let's eat real food. Is it organic? What's in this? Can we swap out some of these things and have really easy available snack choices so you're not eating a whole bunch of [00:11:00] processed foods.
But I'm also not someone who's like labeling food, good or bad. It's all about balance, right? Almost. Every American is low in vitamin D. That's pretty common across the board. We just don't get a lot of outdoor time, so I really encourage my clients get outside. If you can move your body and get outside and get fresh air, that's great.
Let's do that. Like I'm a big believer in these are all things you can control and do something about. So let's do more about them. Sometimes I'll have whole sessions where I just talk to clients about what I call sleep hygiene. Their nighttime routine, how they sleep, where they sleep, what's the temperature at?
What makes you comfortable, what makes you uncomfortable? To try to figure out ways to help them sleep better. 'cause sleep, kind of like nutrition and exercise is a really big component in our, not just our mental health, our whole body health. So that's kind of where I like to start, is just with self care, the foundations, and then depending on the person, we might move into very specific coping skills that might work for them.
Maybe it's breath [00:12:00] work maybe it's journaling. It kind of depends on the person. I like that to be a little bit more, you know, personalized. But for me, self-care is kind of the foundation because it doesn't. Make mental health struggles go away, but it definitely gives us a little bit of power to manage the intensity of that.
So if you're having really extreme anxiety, it's gonna help the level of anxiety, it's gonna back down. If you're having really strong depression symptoms, moving your body exercise is the best treatment for depression. It's the most effective. So if we can get you moving your body a little bit more, those symptoms are gonna start subsiding.
I think another really common thing I see, and it makes me really sad, is a lot of women, especially around the forties they don't have community. I don't know if it's, they get so sucked into their role as mom and wife, but so many, I will talk to so many women and in my intake part of what we go over is kind of like, tell me about your life, your family, your friends, your hobbies.
They [00:13:00] don't have friends or they have a friend, but they don't live near them, which I get. I have a best friend that lives far away too. Or. They might have a friend or two, they have zero hobbies. Like they don't have anything they do just for fun or just for themselves, just for doing it just to live life.
So that's another area where I often really challenge my clients to push themselves out of their comfort zone. To go make friends, to volunteer to, to put themselves out there, to, you know, join some organizations, do something because that isolation is incredibly dangerous and detrimental to our mental health.
sheree Beaumont: Yeah, this is such a beautiful approach. It's really refreshing to hear the foundational and. Like the integration of the physical with the mental health. Like I love what you mentioned about our brain being part of our physical health and to the point of like not just going straight down the rabbit hole of, okay, let's unearth a whole lot of trauma, or Oh, let's go digging for things that maybe happened in your childhood.
Or, you know, even to the point of like [00:14:00] understanding the impact like you shared that exercise can have on our mental health. Like I often say to people. That's the real reason I train. That's the real reason you'll catch me outside because my mental health feels so much more expanded. I feel so much clearer.
Like even just getting up and moving. I saw something this morning that was reminding people of this, like even going to the gym is a form of somatic regulation, right? That movement of energy within the body actually helps us regulate our emotions, and so. My question for you, 'cause I know you touched on a number of things, but I wanna dive a little bit deeper into this side of things.
If someone comes to you and they are, you're telling them, okay, you need to exercise, you need to get outdoors. I know from like past clients, I even know, like I've had real lows in my life. Sometimes you don't even wanna be getting out of bed. To go and exercise or the idea of actually getting into an exercise routine feels challenging.
Like, I love that you said do something that you're gonna stick with and that you [00:15:00] enjoy. Totally advocate for that as well. I'm just curious if someone's sitting in your office and like, I don't have the energy to, or I don't have, like, maybe there's sleeps affecting it or like they don't have the community or accountability buddy that they might have to support them, which is often a really easy way to get into the gym or, you know, go and do some sort of dance class or something.
What's your advice there? Yeah, if it's a
Robin Burleson: client that's, it's very severe, like they have really intense trouble like getting out of bed, I'll literally start with, I want you to get out of bed. I want you to make the bed so you don't get back in it. Little tricks like that. I want you to open all the blinds in your home.
We're gonna let all the sunlight in, and I want you just to sit near a window, so if that's all you can do that day is you're sitting near the window, great. Right then from there. Okay? Can you now go sit outside on your porch? And have your coffee there. Read your book there, do your work there, whatever it is you need to do for that day.
And then eventually, can it be, can you walk up and down your driveway or your sidewalk in front of your home, whatever they have available to them. Also, moms don't like [00:16:00] to count things that they do with their kids as movement. I'm like, that's exercise. So if you took your kids to the park and you chase them around and push them in the swing and like walked with them, that's movement.
That counts. That counts. So I will start it even like that simple and basic. If that's where I need to meet that person, that's where I'll meet them. You know, there's no shame around this, this, they're really, truly struggling. If they can't get outta bed, they can't get outta bed. So let's figure out some ways to step one, get you outta bed.
I always tell people when I say, I want you to have movement, exercise. I'm not talking about CrossFit. If you love CrossFit, that's great, but you gotta love CrossFit to wanna do that, right? I want you to find something you enjoy doing because you're more likely to continue doing it. So I have clients who, they garden.
I've had clients that do go to dance classes for adults. I've had clients that join like intermural leagues at the local rec center. Orange theories popular here pure Bar Pilates. Lots of clients really like Pilates I think, 'cause it's [00:17:00] gentle movements. And I think as we age, I've noticed my clients more like in their forties, fifties, sixties, really like the more gentle movement, but where they're also doing some strength training.
I do push weightlifting quite a bit 'cause I know there's a lot of benefits for us women physically to lift weights. But I also think. When we do work out and we do push ourselves and expend energy, it does create mind clarity. And that's kind of what I'm after as a therapist. Like, I want you to leave there and be like, wow, my mind feels so clear.
I haven't felt this way in days. Like, this is great because like you said, that's gonna take you back to the gym. And I'm the same way. I feel like as I've gotten older, I don't work out to look a certain way. I work out to feel a certain way. And that's really important to me. And I really do. Pressure A, a good peer pressure, my clients, to kind of figure that out and look into exercise in that way.
Christa Elza: I mean, another point with working out, going to a gym, joining some kind of a class situation, you're automatically building [00:18:00] community with that too. I know for me, in my postpartum period, my gym time was like everything because it was an opportunity to drop the baby off. Babies off and have time that felt like my own.
And it was also a time that I connected with other women there at the same time. And generally, you know, if you're gonna classes at a gym or whatever, you're on a schedule. People are creatures of habit. They are there at the same time. And so I think that really kills two birds with one stone, with like building that community, getting your body moving.
I wanted to ask you like, what are your thoughts on. Taking like medications and hormones, like when do you say, okay, cool, we've got foundations down. But somebody in their forties. I mean, I definitely have patients that are menopausal numbers at 43, so it can happen definitely early. There's a big span and I think people think, oh my gosh, four, I'm 42.
Like, how am I feeling? And keep in [00:19:00] mind that perimenopause can be, you know, five, sometimes eight years before your last period. So just recently I had a patient, her last period has been during this year or last year, and she was 43 when that happened, which I think, I mean, that's on the earlier side. So she could have, even in her late thirties, been going through those perimenopausal changes where the ovaries is kind of sputtering on and off and all of that.
And so I think, you know, I'm just, I'm wondering at what point do you say okay. Maybe we need to address hormones or maybe we need to have an antidepressant on board while we're doing therapy. Like where do you stand with some of those tools?
Robin Burleson: Yeah, so once they've been really consistently, I usually ask them to pick like two to three goals to focus on when it comes to, and then I'll ask them to track it and they can do that however they would like to do, just so they can bring me back some data and some follow up on how they're feeling, how consistent they've been, and if it's like.
They're spinning their wheels, it's not getting any better. Then I will [00:20:00] definitely refer, Hey, let's, maybe we need to follow up with a psychiatrist. Let's explore that option. And that, and I don't pressure that, but that's definitely a conversation and most people have lots of questions about it, which is totally valid.
I would too. Sometimes I do see clients and then the first session I'm like. Whoa, this person is really struggling. They are really hurting, and so not very often, but occasionally I'll get someone right out the gate. I'm like, I don't do this often, but I'm gonna recommend we go ahead and get a psychiatrist on board because their symptoms are so severe and when I do assessments, they're like in the most severe, severe range.
So I do have some assessments I can do on my own when it comes to the hormones. A lot of times some key things I'm listening for are. Well, they're, I'll consider their age and I'll just ask them, Hey, have you had your hormones tested? Is that, do you think that could be what's going on? And most of the time they have not had their hormones tested.
But the thing I hear that makes me go, Hmm, is when they say, well, I thought about that and I talked to my doctor, but they said everything was fine on the blood [00:21:00] work. I am. Okay. Let me give you referrals of a few people that I think you should go and talk to a little bit more about your options because I just feel like you had mentioned earlier, I just don't know that women are always listened to and sometimes I don't know that doctors are doing it on purpose to shut people up.
I just think maybe there's lack of research and education perhaps about hormone health and women's health kind of in general. So when they tell me that, when they tell me they're having trouble sleeping, when they tell me that they've all become, all of a sudden become this rage filled person, I'm like, oh, okay.
And like they've never had anger issues of, you know, of any sub substantial type in the past. That's kind of an indicator. If they tell me they've had a baby in the last couple years, I'm like. Okay. Because it takes a while for your hormones to level out after you have a baby. So those are some of the things I'm looking for.
So it, it can go both ways. Sometimes I'll refer people to a psychiatrist and also a, a doctor that specializes in hormones. It kind of depends on the person. For me, [00:22:00] when it comes to like depression and anxiety symptoms, if anyone is actively suicidal, for me, that's an automatic referral. Like we need to get a doctor to partner with me.
We need a safety plan. We need extra resources. So that's a. Right away. We're gonna get you some support. I'm trying to think of other, if there's any other signals to me. Oh, one, this is more teenagers, but can be adults if there's self-harm involved. So if there's any kind of like purposeful harming of themselves.
So it could be cutting, scraping, burning purposely trying to injure themselves. People get this confused with suicidal ideation. It's two separate things. So you can have someone who is self-harming, but they don't have a wish to die. You can also have people who do both, but the self-harm and the suicide ideation are two separate things.
So if I see a female with those issues, that's gonna be an automatic, let's partner with someone. And then the other one would be any kind of eating disorders. I'm gonna automatically refer them to an eating disorder specialist in the [00:23:00] mental health field, and I'm gonna get them to a registered dietician.
sheree Beaumont: There's so many layers to this, right? And like I hear you. Talking like about the fact that it can identify so much that can be attributed to hormones. I'm also thinking about like my own personal experience. When I was, well, all the way up until I was about twenty one, twenty two, I was on the birth control pill.
And so you've also got the side of things where you've had your hormones shut down for the longest period of time, like I had remember having this full blown anxiety attack in the middle of New York City, and it wasn't till, you know, two, three years down the track that I realized. It was because my progesterone was so low, it was because my hormones had been so shut down.
It was because I was running on absolute emptiness. And you know, back then anxiety wasn't as commonly termed as it is now or as commonly diagnosed. And so I think there's a couple pieces. There's part of it that's like, okay, there's some shame that you can carry. Thinking like, oh my gosh, [00:24:00] I'm, you know, walking around with this.
Imbalance and I dunno what's driving it. Like, I honestly just thought I was crazy. I remember dropping my water bottle and the lid broke and I started crying and I was like, what is all this? Why are all these hormones? And like, you're almost ashamed to even want to go and get the help or even get the support.
And similarly to understanding years down the track, like even I imagine with women in postpartum, or even in menopause and perimenopause, seeing this as something that you don't just have to deal with alone. And so. I'm really curious as like how people. End up in your world. Like I know what a lot of the work that you do is around relationships and really, like, I know all different phases of life.
This can really start to affect relationships too. Like I remember the arguments and I look back, I'm like, my gosh, my poor ex-boyfriends, like I was a mental patient sometimes, or like you felt like you were, and I don't use that term you know, in a really negative context. But like you, you know, we kind of talk about it in that respect and the [00:25:00] amount of impact that our hormones then have.
On our relationship. So are you able to talk to that a little bit?
Robin Burleson: Yeah, I think it's profound. I think for a couple reasons. I think, I think there's like an intersection of just like life happening. So like we were talking about earlier, about like the 40 something year old women. I think about most 40 something year olds, you know, they've been married for a while. They may have had a couple of kids, but they've been with their partner for a really long time, and I think.
Yeah, it's a really natural point in life in which you're questioning, okay, this relationship, where are we going? Our kids are leaving the nest soon. What are we gonna do after that? Like, we had only thought about like getting married and having kids. So like, what do we do after that? And then you couple that with also hormonal changes.
It can be very hard on a marriage. And something I I see a lot is women coming in and they're upset about. Division of labor in the home, which sounds really silly, basically chores, [00:26:00] but this is something that, I don't know what it is, something about the time between 35 and 45, you've had enough. And you don't like the way the division of labor is kind of like Christo was talking about, you know, she was the default parent.
All the things fall on me, and they want to kind of renegotiate their marriage and they wanna renegotiate their role in the marriage and they want to pass some of that responsibility off, or they wanna do something different, or they wanna change their career or their kids are older and they wanna go back to work or whatever it is.
There's so many things and they come to me and they're angry. They're usually angry at their partner because they want all this change. And sometimes they just don't know how to communicate it and their partner's willing to do it. I need to teach them how to communicate that.
Sometimes it's a, wow. These are some really valid points. , This might be a good time to go see a marriage therapist. And I'll refer them to a local therapist that I really trust to help them kind of renegotiate their marriage and sort through those things. That's a really common common issue that [00:27:00] I see.
I'm trying to think what else. Definitely body changes that comes up a lot. I feel like I have the most conversations about body image with teenagers and then I would probably say. Middle age, so maybe like 30 to 45. I think I've noticed after, like, I don't know if this is true, but it's an observation. I feel like as we get older, as women, I've noticed like my more senior clients, they don't really care as much about what their body looks like.
They care more about what it feels like, which I love and I look forward to feeling the same way. I love that. But body image is something that comes across and I think our hormones have a huge role in that. I know for me personally, I have thyroid issues. Figuring that out in the last few years has helped me to understand my body a lot more.
But when your body's doing things that, and you don't know why and you can't understand it, and it's making you feel bad [00:28:00] about yourself, that's where therapy can be really, really helpful to kind of gain self-esteem and build confidence. Confidence is. Not natural. It is something we have to work at and a lot of women just think, oh, that woman's confident.
I'm not. No, that's not how it works. We have to really work hard to be confident and to build our self-esteem.
Christa Elza: What about. Midlife crisis, like we've all heard that term, but when you said, you know, women wanna renegotiate the marriage and who's doing what and, and that kind of thing, where does that fall in line with like. You know, oh my gosh, I'm approaching 40 or now I'm in my forties. And I know for me personally, there's this kind of scrambling of like, oh my gosh, I can't believe like I'm approaching this age.
What, what is happening? You know? And, and it's, it's real. It's almost like you, you wanna just grab hold of youth in some way. And I think in some people that's an affair. And some people that's a new car and [00:29:00] some people that's, we're moving new houses and we're gonna do something different or you know, some kind of crash diet or, I don't know.
I think it comes out in all different. Ways what is your experience with that and what do you, you know, I don't know if you happen to see people in the midst of that or in the the trail of that, that they realize they've really sort of sabotaged some areas of their life and now they're trying to backpedal.
Because I would assume, I know in my life I wasn't, I didn't wanna go to a counselor in the middle of it. 'cause I wanted to just seek fun and seek something to change and make. Make me feel better, make me feel like I wasn't all of a sudden, like at the end of my life. It's funny how you feel like, oh my God, the youth is just gone and that's not true.
But I think in that time period you do feel like that and you can make some really, hopefully not permanently disastrous decisions, but So I'm assuming by the time they get to you, they've sort of been in maybe a disastrous, maybe a semi disastrous situation. How do [00:30:00] you approach that for women? Yeah, I
Robin Burleson: think that's just a big part of therapy is we get the people after the fact and I wish that were different.
I wish people saw therapy as more of a proactive treatment. 'cause it can be and it is. And it's funny, I feel like moms see that for their daughters, but don't see that for themselves. I think that's really an interesting little side note. Like they'll bring their daughters to me and be like, oh, I can see she's, you know, she needs help.
Let's get start now. You know, before this becomes a problem. But I don't know, I think I get a lot of women in the aftermath. I do Sometimes I'll get some that are like, Hey, I all of a sudden feel so un unhappy in my marriage. And sometimes they have legitimate reasons. Right. Sometimes I'm like, wait, why do you hate him?
What is this? You know? And then that's also when I'm like, have you had to wear a monster time? Because I think you might be irrationally angry with him about like, not nothing crazy. So I do think I get them in the aftermath quite a bit. But I think life can kind of be that [00:31:00] way. I work a lot with grief also.
There's often, sometimes, I guess there are times in life when you know someone's gonna pass and you can be a little bit proactive with your processing of your grief, but a lot of times it just happens and then people may not even go to therapy for a long time. I found that to be really true, where people will come to me and they're like, I've been miserable for years since my mom died.
I've been bottling it up. It's time, like I need to process it. And so sometimes things like that happen and it's more of a reactive response. But the midlife crisis is interesting. I used to work with men and I just feel like men do it a little bit differently than women do. I think women, we kind of look inwardly and we're like, what can I change about myself?
And that's where women want to like change how they look. They might consider like. P medical procedures, like plastic surgery they hadn't before. They may wanna change their friend groups, their style. They may wanna move to a different home, that sort of thing. Men, I feel like I don't know. They wanna go buy [00:32:00] stuff like they want a boat or a car and like, I've never really, now that I'm thinking about it, I've had male clients when I worked with men in the past, do that, but I've never had a female go buy a car because they're having a midlife crisis.
But they will go cut their hair. And a lot of times I joke with clients, but I'm kind of serious and I'm like, Hey, you're really going through something. You do not have permission to cut bangs until I say you're good. You can't go cut bangs or dye your hair or any of those things. 'cause I don't know. And maybe that's part of like who I attract.
I do like to work with really like high achieving women. Who maybe struggle with perfectionism, and maybe that's just part of the personality type, is to look inside and be like, I'm the problem. What can I change? Versus looking outward and being like everybody else is the problem. So then we start wanting to change our career or change our relationships, whatever it is we choose.
So maybe that's just part of being a female, or in my case, working with like high achieving high functioning, anxious. People, you know. And earlier you said something, we were talking about medication. I [00:33:00] wanted to say that's really interesting about women. When I worked with men, I never heard a man say this.
I've heard women tell me this in my office. They have said about medication, I don't wanna take it. I got myself in this situation, I'm gonna get myself out. And every time I hear that, it breaks my heart. So I'm like, you didn't do anything to cause yourself to have extreme depression or, anxiety or your hormones, were gonna do this.
There's nothing you can do. Like you were gonna be really irritable. You were going to have this rage. Like it makes me so sad that they feel like they caused it and so they just need to fix it on their own. And that's just not how it works at all. So that's something I had thought about earlier too, and maybe that ties into the midlife crisis where women get, dig their heels in and they get really resistant to like, trying to repair things or try to do things that might make them feel better.
'cause they feel some level of shame or guilt about it, which is misplaced, but that's how they feel.[00:34:00]
Christa Elza: Yeah, no, I agree. I think, guilt kind of comes along with, especially if you're in the MA aftermath of something. Right. And I think to go back to what you said with teenage daughters being brought in, people around, you can probably recognize, wow, she is acting a little unhinged lately. But it's hard, I think, as adults to approach our friends and say, Hey, are you really okay?
Definitely hard for a spouse to tell you. It's almost like the spouse becomes like a parent and you don't want to hear it from those around you. And that unfortunately, I mean, I think. When you're unemotional, when you're not emotionally tied to something, you can definitely see things for what it is, but it's hard being the person to recognize or even acknowledge like, Hey, let me live my life.
But you're not recognizing kind of the spot that you're in. So that's, yeah. That's interesting. I think when you're an adult, you don't have a parent that's dragging you [00:35:00] in to get help in the midst of it. Right. But I love that you are open to. You know, reaching out and collaborating with other practitioners so that the patient, the client can move forward in a holistic way.
Because when you see somebody dealing with the guilt and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, but when you recognize like, hey, maybe you need to see a psychiatrist score, maybe, you know, you need to get some hormonal support. Definitely we see statistically that suicide rates are higher for women in that age bracket from like mid forties to mid fifties, and that just lands right there during that.
Up and down kind of crazy. And so the lens that you're looking at life at is completely skewed and you typically feel pretty good before and after that. It's just getting you through that moment. And the more practitioners that understand that, you know, maybe it's not just talk therapy that needs to happen.
It's gonna be both. It's gonna be dealing with things that have now sprouted up because you're really feeling all these things that you no longer want to be. [00:36:00] Available for, I mean, I think it's perfectly fine to say I'm ready for a change in my relationship. I'm ready for my, my partner to show up in a different way.
But also we need to temper that with hormonal balance. And I think when we have that hormonal imbalance, sometimes it really highlights, like I'll give a shit factors out the window and you really just start to like, call a spade a spade. You see it like, I'm tired of this. Like this is not okay. But you don't feel good in the midst of like recognizing all of that, right?
It comes out in that anger or irritability or frustration. And so the way you approach it I think is really, really great. And has the client in mind, the holistic part. 'cause it's not just one thing, right?
Robin Burleson: Yeah. Yes. I always tell my client that to view like you're the toolbox and everything that I recommend or another medical professional recommends, it's a tool, not one.
There's not one single thing that's gonna be the quote unquote. Cure to your problem. There's not a medication that can totally [00:37:00] cure this. There's talk therapy alone isn't gonna cure this. Movement alone isn't going to, but all those things added together are going to have a wonderful pause. Positive impact on how you're feeling and how you're living your life.
So yeah, I really believe in collaboration. It's also really important to me as a provider to collaborate with people. Like, I wanna meet you. I wanna look at you in the eye. I wanna know that when I send my client to you, you're gonna return their email or you're gonna call them back. They're gonna get an appointment right away.
They're gonna get good service. Because I see the most fragile people. Yeah. And one phone call that never gets returned is enough to turn someone off. They will not reach out again. Especially, like you said, someone who's having suicidal thoughts, they're very fragile and they're very sensitive.
So if I send them to a doctor, a psychiatrist even a massage therapist, whoever, and they don't return their call, it shuts them down and they're not gonna try again. So I think collaboration is important, but you [00:38:00] have to collaborate with people. You can really trust to treat your clients with, you know, the best care and the most respect.
sheree Beaumont: It's so important, right, to have that person that you know you can trust because I think like so often. You know, and this is not if they get medical providers. This is really, if you look at anywhere in a woman's life, apart from her friends that she might have access to, not all that often, or a smaller community or maybe a lack of community, like you mentioned, she tends to bottle things up a lot of the time, like she hasn't really gotten anywhere to express it.
And then you go to the doctor and you say, Hey, this is, I'm feeling off. Or you go somewhere and like you get shut down or you're told it's just normal and you're brushed over. Like you then just retreat further inwards. And so having a safe space to go to like yourself, where they can actually express what they're feeling, and then for you to have that level of, Hey, why don't you speak to this person and maybe there's something else going on that we can compliment, or let's encourage some movement because that's really gonna support you as well.
It [00:39:00] starts to encourage a lot of that real progress and real transformation because you know. And I'm curious a little bit about this. There's a big generational gap I think, you know, I look at the woman now that I work with and their awareness around the importance of therapy or the importance of actually having a safe space to go or someone to talk to.
You know, like I know Krista and myself, we both give our clients and our patients a lot of time because that's what they need. They need to be heard, they need to be seen, they need to be understood. And yet there are a lot of women that have been. I kind of just looked at this, like not able to look at their self-awareness.
Firstly, like you said, they bring the moms that bring their daughters in and completely unconscious of the fact that they might need the support, but also the generational difference of, oh no, I don't need that, or, or no therapy is, is not for me and, and there can almost be some shame around this. I'm really curious, is there a way to.
Really help [00:40:00] bridge the gap. Or if there's someone you feel like you need to maybe have the conversation with and like that's maybe a little bit more sensitive or doesn't quite have the emotional intelligence to realize that maybe they need the support. Someone from the outside, not necessarily as a practitioner, but maybe it's a family member or a loved ones.
Like I'm thinking about our listeners listening to this being like, you know, I really think my mom could do with coming to see Robin. I really think my mom or my, you know, auntie is in the space where they need this. Like how do you, I know people aren't gonna change unless they want to change, but how can you maybe plant the seed or even broach this conversation?
'cause it can be a really hard topic.
Robin Burleson: I think it helps if you can speak from a place of experience. You know, if you've been to therapy, it's like, I guess you wouldn't suggest it if you hadn't. I don't know. Maybe people do, but I think it's important to give advice that comes from a seasoned place, you know? So I think it helps if you've been to therapy, because they're gonna firstly say, oh, I don't need that.
That doesn't work. Or they may say, this is gonna sound crazy, but they're gonna say [00:41:00] Mental health isn't real. That's not a real thing. Because some of the older generations, that's what they were taught. They truly believe that. So then you can open up the conversation of, no, actually it is like I experienced anxiety when blank happened to me.
I went to therapy and I learned these tools or you know, my therapist. That was the one hour in my week where I could go, and it was about me. It wasn't about my husband, it wasn't about my kids, it wasn't about my job. It was just about me and whatever I wanted to talk about. And that, that alone is really transformative.
Like it's interesting in therapy, the number one factor that's going to create change in a client is the relationship between the client and the therapist. So something you could say to them is, it is incredibly, incredibly important that you choose a therapist that you feel a connection with, that this person gets you, that they listen to you, that [00:42:00] they care about you.
I think one mistake people make, and it does turn them off from therapy, is they go and they look on their insurance and just find the first person, the first therapist that accepts their insurance, and they just go to that person. And it's so limiting because typically people need to call around, do a consultation with a couple of therapists, talk to them, get a feel for who they are find out, you know, who do you see, what kind of issues do you specialize in.
But I think the, the biggest part of the conversation is really pushing that it's personalized. So like, you should choose somebody you feel comfortable with and that, you know, I wanna say there's no pressure. Like all you're gonna do is go and talk about your life and this person's gonna help guide the conversation.
They're professional. We talk and we listen all day long. I mean, if you wanna sit in silence, we will totally let you. Like I will respect that. But for the most part, you know, we are here to guide you through this process. And I will say [00:43:00] the clients who are always like, I don't really think I need to be here, but so and so told me to come.
They're usually the ones that I'm like, we have to wrap up. Like it's been, it's your hour. We, we need to quickly wrap this up. They have so much to say and then they end up having such a great experience in therapy so they can get over the hurdle, the hump. Most people actually really enjoy therapy. 'cause when else do you have an hour in your week to sit and talk about your problems or get advice or, or coping skills about something going on, or how to manage something in your life.
It's pretty amazing.
Christa Elza: I mean, ultimately I think that we all need to be in therapy you know, at least one session a year. I think that mental health is so important and we all have busy minds. We all have things that we hold in and don't share with others. We don't share with anyone. Because it's just, that's just the nature of being human, and I think that therapy really helps open things up.
It really helps you see some, [00:44:00] something from a different perspective and a safe place because sometimes we don't wanna share the way that we feel with our best friend. We don't wanna share with our spouse so we don't feel like we have a safe place that can give us some feedback with from without any strings attached.
Because most of the people close to us, if we're sharing something, they're coming at it from some kind of a string attached because they are emotionally invested or they in you or themselves with you, or. Whatever the case may be. And so I love that there is therapy available more widespread now because it's just so important for, you know, it's almost like a teeth cleaning at least once a year.
Like, I think having good conversation, especially during difficult times in your life, should, should really be. Taken advantage of like go do the thing. And I love that you said, take your time in choosing who, because I've been guilty of that. You kind of look up who's taking my insurance. And you may or not, [00:45:00] may not vibe with them.
You may or may not ever get anything out of it or feel safe to share. And so also being willing to shift gears and say, this one's not working for me. Let me find somebody who does. Because I think when you do find that connection. That's where the magic happens. Right. So, thank you so much, Robin, for being here, for sharing a little bit about what you do, what's available to people in general.
And I think specifically bringing awareness around the importance of counseling and therapy for women, particularly in those transitional times of your life and recognizing that there's help out there people like you that care and can really lead. You know, her client's in the right direction.
Do you do any virtual or is it all in person? Also what, where can people reach you if they want to ask you questions or all of that? What's kind of the availability for.
Robin Burleson: Yeah, so I do see, I can see anyone in the state of Texas. So, I do offer virtual appointments. Most of my clients are in [00:46:00] person.
I just think we're kind of having a swing back towards the trend of people like liking to go in, in office and that's great. I love that. I offer a few unique offerings here locally in New Braunfels. I offer walk and talk outdoor sessions, so that's where we can take our session to a local park. It combines the.
Sunlight, fresh air movement talk therapy together. And then I also have a therapy dog. So I offer animal assisted therapy. So if you or you have a teenage daughter who is interested in therapy in finding a therapist I do offer free consultation. Okay. So we can set that up. And also I like to tell people if you talk with me and I'm not the right fit for whatever reason, I'm happy to give you referrals to other mental health professionals that I trust.
Sometimes just talking to one therapist will eventually get you to the one that you want. 'cause we tend to know each other because I'm happy to give a referral or help if I'm not the right fit. The best way to find. All my information would be my website. It's ww dot her journey counseling.com.
You can find [00:47:00] me on Instagram and Facebook at her journey counseling as well. And like I said, I do a free 15 minute phone con consultation so we can kind of talk about what's going on in your life and I can answer any questions you might have about me, my practice or therapy in general.
sheree Beaumont: That's beautiful. Well, we'll make sure we pop everything in the show notes, all of your handles, all of your website details and everything like that. And I know Krista and Robin, you guys are doing something really exciting with the walk and talk coming up soon in New Braunfels in Texas. So that's gonna be really beautiful to see firsthand.
Yeah, thank you so much for your time here, Robin. Thank you for everything you've shared. Everything really resonated on a deeper level. I love how you look after your patients and clients as such a holistic way. So we really appreciate your time here today.
Thank
you so much for having me. It's been great.
Speaker: If you love this episode, be sure to leave us a review, download, and subscribe. If you know someone that could also benefit from this conversation, please share. That's how we Spread Empowered Health. We'll see you again for another episode of the Wild and Wild [00:48:00] Collective.
